There's been some major confusion about the size of the new Antenociti's Workshop 15mm Governance Of Technology APCs - especially the Hunchback. I think the bad angle on my photograph yesterday has only added fuel to the fire. The APCs are more than large enough to carry a full squad of infantry (although I will agree that the Zebu Land Cruiser is on the small side).
Unfortunately - I play really small games, so my vehicle collection is a bit limited. Here are comparison pics against every APC that I own:
 |
| GOT Hunchback, Old Crow Glaive, GOT Karbardin, Combat Wombat Grizzly |
 |
| GOT Hunchback, Rebel Wolverine, GOT Karbardin, Ravenstar Studios Blazer |
 |
| GOT Hunchback, Matchbox ARV, GOT Karbardin, Brigade Models Eurofed Tassigny |
Hopefully this helps a bit! These are certainly not a roomy mobile command center - that's why we have vehicles like Khurasan Caimans. But if you're looking for an armored transport - these are perfectly scaled to carry 15mm sci fi figures to the battlefield.
Cheers,
Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for the new pics, but can you please do them from directly above the APC's, just so people can get a better view of the sizes of the various APC's.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Paul G.
very useful, my thanks Chris!
ReplyDeleteHi; I know its the wrong scale for you tiny war people, but just in case; another GOT comparison picture (in 28mm)
ReplyDeletehttp://devos4.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/got-vehicles.html
Just to clarify what the design intention was, the Caiman was designed as an armoured transport, not as a mobile command centre.
ReplyDeleteJon - I understand that you consider it to be a transport. But it does have a greater purpose than "cram a squad in like sardines and get them to the battlefield." The term "mobile command center" probably isn't accurate - just trying to reflect its intended purpose.
DeleteBoth design philosophies have their place in 15mm sci fi, as proven by the respective sales of both you and Antenociti's Workshop. :) I'm simply stating that there IS a distinction between the two vehicle designs.
As with everything, it's up to the hobbyist to decide which will fit better in their respective armies. And I look forward to seeing all of them used on the tabletop.
"But it does have a greater purpose than "cram a squad in like sardines and get them to the battlefield." The term "mobile command center" probably isn't accurate - just trying to reflect its intended purpose"
DeleteGuess I'm not being clear. The intended purpose of the Caiman is to be an APC.
Not unclear at all. :)
DeleteCan you hold this thought for a day or two? I'm going to post an article/invite open discussion about future APC design philosophies. The Caiman, because of its iconic nature, will be featured in the article.
It is worth considering the change in what an APC actually is, especially over the last 10 years or so. An APC for defending the Fulda Gap against a russian horde is considerably different to an APC needed to patrol in Afghanistan. Is an MRAP also an APC and are some APCs closer to MRAPs or patrol vehicles? If a vehicle has features of both an MRAP and an APC what actually is it?
DeleteThe design philosophy of what an APC is,even today, is blurred, doe sit have fighting capability of is it just an infantry carrier. The Merkava TANK can carry 4 troops so is it an APC.. it is certainly armoured and it carries personnel.
Similarly an MRAP is an armoured personnel carrier as are most armoured vehicles including civilian conversions.
It is impossible to define an APC "In the future" unless you also know its intended role to make sense of it. An MRAP IS an APC, but it is not an APC as is a warrior AFV, And note the use of the term AFV as the warrior IS a fighting vehicle, yet it is also an APC.
The problem is that for many people APC means something completely different, and that changes with their own knowledge about AFVs, past and present, plus their knowledge of the aim of the vehicle in the sci-fi universe.
So trying to define what an APC is is very 'dangerous' as its function AND design changes with circumstances and environment.
I think the comment comes from the fact that the vehicle it is based on included not only troop carrying capacity but a full command center in one vehicle, making it bigger than a dedicated APC.
ReplyDelete-Eli
It's not "bigger than a dedicated APC", as these are fictional vehicles. There's no other APC for it to be bigger than. It's as big as it is.
DeleteIn any event, it was made as, and is being marketed as, an APC, and not as a mobile command centre.
Nobody is saying you are wrong. Even the movie licensing called theirs an APC. Comments were made and when questions were raised clarifications was offered.
DeleteWhatever you call it. Compared to other vehicles of yours, of the same class, in your own established setting, it is a bigger. That is fact. Does that imvalidate your choice or make it less cool? No.
-Eli
"Compared to other vehicles of yours, of the same class, in your own established setting, it is a bigger. That is fact."
DeleteAnd?
An M113 is 15 feet long. A BTR-80 is 25 feet long, nearly twice as long.
So, is the M113 "smaller than a dedicated APC" or is the BTR-80 "bigger than a dedicated APC?"
Why the insistence on officialdom here?
DeleteThe only reason anyone's arguing this point is because you seem to adamant over it.
I think if somebody pays money for something they should be able to call it a penny whistle if they want.
-Eli
...because you are attributing features to the vehicle that it is does not have.
Deletehttp://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/2012/04/15mm-vehicle-figure-comparisons/
ReplyDeletehttp://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/CIMG7309.jpg
I picked up a couple of Skorpions, a couple of Kabardins and a Zebu to go with some Critical Mass Mercs I've been building into a mixed species "foreign legion" style merc company.
ReplyDeleteThe Kabardins and Skorpions are absolutely fine, as would the Hunchback have been. They're roughly on a par size-wise with the GZG and CMG stuff I looked at. The detail is great as well.
The Zebu I ummed and ah'd over but went with in the end for a couple of reasons. Firstly it's a lovely sculpt! Also, in comparison to some of the chunkier infantry out there it does look a bit too small but any of the smaller sculpts suit it just fine. CMG's merc15 pack (new Vadorian assassins) look spot on with it, as do the chaps in the banner at the top of this site. I got a few GZG free samples to have a look at after the show and they also mostly work fine with it. Basically if you're wearing very heavy armour you wouldn't fit in there. Light armour lIke the UNSC stuff looks ok with it.
Once you stick a washer (or a 5p piece in my case) on as a base it does make infantry look a lot bigger next to it. I'm mulling over the idea of cutting a plasticard base for it to give it the same amount of extra presence.
On a side note, AW's 28mm sci fi stuff leans heavily towards the slenderer Infinity style rather than the "heroic" GW style so that probably accounts for some of the visual difference. Looking forwards to seeing them convert the rest of their GOT range to 15mm! They've done a 28mm mobile "spider" gun mount that would work fantastically with Khurasan's Mekanoids as a smaller walker to accompany the Dictator as well :-)
I have got some comparison pics of the Zebu with some suitable infantry, can't paste in the reply field on my mobile though so they'll have to wait until I get on a desktop.
Not sure if image links will work but ou can paste the http into the address bar if not:
ReplyDeleteZebu with CMG merc15
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/Rich_B/3b56440e.jpg[/IMG]
Zebu with CMG mercs from Dropship Horizon Banner
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/Rich_B/9959d8db.jpg[/IMG]
Zebu with GZG infantry
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/Rich_B/9ea0bcff.jpg[/IMG]
Zebu with based CMG merc
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/Rich_B/c5de30d2.jpg[/IMG]
Worth noting that the based merc would be approx seven and a half to eight feet tall. He is a big 'un, standing head and shoulders over the other mercs in his pack.
DeleteHope all that is useful!